Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, June 14, 2007; A01
I've been having an interesting discussion with "mykid2". I posted the discussion in the comments section below, where our discussion may continue further.
Consider this relevant scenario:
The time is several decades ago. You're visiting a Frank Lloyd Wright house (e.g. Falling Water) with some friends. You're looking around in astonishment at the sheer beauty and creativity of the design... the soaring beams, the intimate nooks, the stone, wood, concrete, and water nestled together in perfect harmony.
All of a sudden, you hear the front door open and another visitor walks in. It turns out to be Frank Lloyd Wright himself.
What would you do in that situation?
Which is more intrinsically important? - the artist or the artifact?
Here's some hilarious stuff from http://www.uncommondescent.com/evolution/uds-first-suck-up-to-darwin-contest/#comments , in honor of the 2009 bicentennial of Charles Darwin's birth and the sesquicentennial of his publication of "The Origin of Species". Here are three of the 'odes'... the link has several more. They're especially funny because they weave in a lot of real evolutionists' rhetoric, and expose some of the irony involved. The second and third one especially bring out the problems atheism/naturalism/evolutionism has with reductionism and determinism... i.e. whether consciousness, morality, and free will are merely illusions or not.
Darwin lived in age of superstition and squalor yet rose above it to lead humanity into sunlight, into the promised land.
Darwin was abandoned by his mother at the age of three months after the insane King George III ordered the death of all infants named “Charles”, “Chas” or “Chuck”. The King’s daughter saw him floating in a basket amongst the bullrushes, however. His superior persona was obvious even at that age and she adopted him as her own.
Darwin grew into a comely man of great height and uncommon strength. He was known to be able to carry a full-grown cow upon his shoulders. Many respected accounts have him running a four-minute mile over a century before Roger Bannister. And in boots.
Still it is the prowness of his mind, not his body for which he is known.
Science was in a primative and unenlighted state before his birth. There was no telephone, eletric light, or aeroplane.
There was no motor car. Not a single luxury.
Darwin’s then theorized that whales might have descended from bears - swimming bears, that is — and all these things became possible.
The glories of the 20th Century would not have occurred without Charles, Chas, Chuck, Darwin.
Much has been written about Darwin, and much more will be.
It can never be enough.
He was a real man of genius. Charles Darwin, we salute you!
As we approach 200 years since Darwin’s birth, how can we go about gauging his importance to the world? When looking at the role of individuals in history, it can be easy to forget that history moves dialectically. Ideas are not the result of individuals, but material, historical processes. If Darwin had chosen a different profession in his youth, the idea of Evolution would have still emerged as a great force in the world.
Does this mean that we shouldn’t honor and revere Darwin? Absolutely not. Material reality chose Darwin to reveal the truth of evolution. By honoring Darwin, we honor the ultimate material reality. Conveniently, Evolution also molded man so that he needed heroes to look up to. Evolution, amazingly, built in a mechanism by which the idea of Evolution can spread. We can honor Darwin by celebrating him and reading his work. In doing so, we fulfill two important Evolutionary needs: the need for a hero and the need for truth about reality. Truth about reality, of course, helps humans advance as a species. Darwin’s work, by undoing the misguided superstitions that evolved for thousands of years, has done more to help us advance as a species than any other man in modern times
Listen my child and I shall tell you
Of the Prophet and His mighty works
The story begins eons ago,
Indeed in the very beginning
For in the beginning were the particles
And, lo, the particles were in motion
Eons passed
Galaxies formed
stars were born; burned for billions of years and died
And in all this time, the particles knew naught
Of themselves or anything else
There was no knowing, my child, for what can particles in motion know?
But slowly, ever so slowly, some of the burned out star stuff
Began to coalesce around a core and form a small planet
Further eons passed and still there was nothing but particles in motion
That knew nothing, for what can particles in motion know?
But then one day, in a warm pond on this little planet
Some of the particles received a surge of energy and
Formed self-replicating groups of bio particles
But still, the particles knew nothing; for what can particles in motion know?
Further eons passed.
And then, oh day of days, came a descendant
Of that first group of self replicating bio particles from that warm pond
And he looked to the heavens and declared “I know.”
This great and glorious amalgamation of bio particles we call the Prophet
Others call him Darwin.
But alas, Darwin did not really know, as he himself recognized
For what can particles in motion know?
I would call you “best beloved” but we know
That love is not real; it is just a chemical reaction in our brain.
So, I shall say, “one who is the object of
The illusory but nevertheless pleasurable chemical reaction in my brain
That I choose (alas, another illusion) to call love”
That is how we came to know that we do not know
For what can particles in motion know?
Here's a recent email I wrote to a email group of creationists... I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
Dear -------, -------, and other friends,
I think you're both right. We Christians can (and must) base our belief structure upon Christ and the Word of God as our sure foundation (more sure than shifting science). Yet our faith in Christ is not subjective or based on circular reasoning, but is based on real historical facts (1 Corinthians 15:1-8) that have empirical/historical/scientific backing.
Our "presuppositional structure" can be based on the Bible (a more 'postmodern' emphasis), while our trust in the Bible itself can be based on the "evidence" for the accuracy and truth of the Bible (a more "modernist" emphasis). Neither full postmodernism nor full modernism are correct (they are both human-centered rather than God-centered), but both philosophies of knowledge have some truth to them.
While saying "Christ should be our starting point" sounds great, problems arise whenever we ask the "What" and "Why" questions. What/who exactly is this "Christ"? Is He the Christ of the modern emergent church, the liberal socialistic activist-for-the-poor? Is He the Christ of Luther? or of the Catholics? "He's the Christ of the Bible," one might say. But all of those groups claim Biblical basis. It is necessary to go back to the "brute facts" of the not-completely-subjective Word of God to ascertain exactly who Christ was and is. Furthermore, "Why" should Christ be our starting point? Why not Muhammad or Buddha or Joseph Smith? Why must we believe in any God whatsoever? Again we must go back to the historical "brute facts" of creation and the history surrounding Jesus of Nazareth to provide a basis for our hope (1 Peter 3:15).
Yet brute facts presented to a nonbeliever will be as ineffective as water rolling off a duck's back... unless God opens the heart and mind to believe.
The Bible itself supports both perspectives on the issue I think (they are complementary rather than contradictory) - in Acts 26:26, 17:22-32, 1 Cor. 15:1-8, etc, examples are given of pointing to Christ from empirical evidences and proofs, philosophical reasoning, and historical facts. Yet in Col. 2:1-10, 1 Cor 1:18-2:16 and 1 Tim 6:20 we are warned against "philosophy"/"human wisdom" and in 2 Peter 1:19 we are told that the prophetic word is even more sure/reliable than direct sensory experience.
Will people come to believe in Christ without God working in their hearts to open their eyes? No. "Evidence" or "brute factuality" without God's regenerating power is useless. (Acts 16:14, Rom. 1, John 6:44, 65, Eph. 2:1-10, etc). Kuhn and Polanyi showed the stubbornness of mere scientific paradigms in the face of data... how much more the stubbornness of a human heart that hates God.
On the other hand, was Van Til right that the only way to witness to people is to first get them to adopt your presuppositional starting point (e.g. the Bible is God's Word)? I see plenty of evidence from Scripture that there are other ways to present the gospel... including ways that start from "scientific facts" or philosophical reasoning, and end at Jesus Christ as portrayed in the Scriptures (e.g. Acts 17:22-32).
Different people are led to Christ from different starting points (1 Cor. 9:19-23).
With esteem,
In Christ, Tim
This six minute video is absolutely hilarious... especially if you've ever heard any of these arguments from an atheist or evolutionist. There's also a related piece of text, but the video is even funnier.
This really hits on many of the most important questions about God. Right at the beginning, the question is asked: "If there is a Dawkins, why hasn't he shown himself to me?"
There are lots of obvious answers - perhaps "because he's got better things to do with his time", etc. But personal subjective experience isn't the only type of evidence... maybe he's "shown himself" to other people...? Ah, but what if all those other people who claimed to have seen him are all lying? Or delusional?/hallucinating? Or merely spreading legends and hearsay?
The logic is almost exactly the same as the evidence for the Biblical Jesus and His miraculous life and resurrection... and once you have a miracle-working, resurrected, Messiah who teaches that God does exist and that He is in fact "one" with Him, the evidence for the existence of "God" begins to stack up quite substantially...
... here's another very nice list of the "top ten" questions atheists ask, with answers. All answers except for #4 are pretty good. For #4, it would probably be better ask a bunch of questions in reply, asking the evolutionist exactly why he's so sure about his scientific theories.
Here's a roundup on more dust stirred up by Dawkins' crusade/book tour
(cf. also my previous post about Dawkins' new book The God Delusion).
http://catholiceducation.org/articles/science/sc0086.htm - Quinn interacts with Dawkins and pins him on several rhetorical and evidential flaws. Notice where Quinn correctly points out that Dawkins is using an appeal to mystery/wishful-thinking (i.e. Scientists havn't figured it out yet, but they've shed light on many other things, so they'll eventually figure this out too...). Uh huh.
http://www.uncommondescent.com/archives/1740 - The fascinating controversy between Dawkins and the more "under-the-radar" atheists/agnostics such as the NCSE.
http://www.uncommondescent.com/archives/1739 - Dawkins can't explain free will and subsequently has difficulty with the illusion (!) of morality.
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.11/atheism.html - a seven-page article about "the New Atheists", with interviews with Dawkins, Dennett, and Harris, well-known contemporary atheists (hat tip: Snincr). See Plantinga's review at http://www.veritas-ucsb.org/library/plantinga/Dennett.html for an awesome discussion of Dennett's/Darwin's views on atheism/evolution and the reliability of the human mind (from a reformed perspective).
My overall take on Dawkins is that he's sadly mistaken, but commendably attempting to be honest (not in all of his beliefs and rhetoric, but in more areas than is typical for an atheist).
Also, related to my recent post about naturalism, check out this article...
Excerpt: Brother Consolmagno, who works in a Vatican observatory in Arizona and as curator of the Vatican meteorite collection in Italy,...described creationism, whose supporters want it taught in schools alongside evolution, as a “kind of paganism” because it harked back to the days of “nature gods” who were responsible for natural events.
Again, the controversy is whether the God of the Bible is a deistic, "hands-off" God, or if He ever actually gets physically involved in His universe...
Here's an excerpt of the part that especially caught my eye:
"...Young-earth creationists also see Schweitzer’s work as revolutionary, but in an entirely different way. They first seized upon Schweitzer’s work after she wrote an article for the popular science magazine Earth in 1997 about possible red blood cells in her dinosaur specimens. Creation magazine claimed that Schweitzer’s research was “powerful testimony against the whole idea of dinosaurs living millions of years ago. It speaks volumes for the Bible’s account of a recent creation.”
This drives Schweitzer crazy. Geologists have established that the Hell Creek Formation, where B. rex was found, is 68 million years old, and so are the bones buried in it. She’s horrified that some Christians accuse her of hiding the true meaning of her data. “They treat you really bad,” she says. “They twist your words and they manipulate your data.” For her, science and religion represent two different ways of looking at the world; invoking the hand of God to explain natural phenomena breaks the rules of science. After all, she says, what God asks is faith, not evidence. “If you have all this evidence and proof positive that God exists, you don’t need faith. I think he kind of designed it so that we’d never be able to prove his existence. And I think that’s really cool.”"
First, it's interesting to note her a priori philosophical bias, which is certainly "methodological naturalism" and probably steps over the boundary of "philosophical naturalism" too... Her view is that God absolutely CANNOT work in time and space in scientifically detectable ways... in other words, God could be good, and loving, and kind, and powerful, and whatever else, but He most certainly CANNOT interact with the world He has created in ways that could be detected by humans - God absolutely CANNOT do miracles. If He could (so reasons the phobia), then people might actually believe in God based on evidence rather than blind faith. (Oh! Horrors!)
According to Schweitzer, "invoking the hand of God to explain natural phenomena breaks the rules of science."
Oh, well excuse me. Forgive me for asking, but who makes up these "rules" again? Shame on Newton, Kepler, Dalton, Faraday, Joule, Maxwell, Stokes, Pasteur, and Kelvin for indulging in such flagrant scientific naughtiness.
Schweitzer is not alone in her complaint, of course. Michael Ruse writes: "Even if Scientific Creationism were totally successful in making its case as science, it would not yield a 'scientific' explanation of origins. The Creationists believe that the world started miraculously. But miracles lie outside of science, which by definition deals only with the natural, the repeatable, that which is governed by law." (Darwinism Defended, p. 182).
Similarly Richard Lewontin writes: "Either the world of phenomena is a consequence of the regular operation of repeatable causes and their repeatable effects, operating roughly along the lines of known physical law, or else at every instant all physical regularities may be ruptured and a totally unforeseeable set of events may occur.... We can not live simultaneously in a world of natural causation and of miracles, for if one miracle can occur, there is no limit." (Scientists Confront Creationism, New York: Norton, 1983, p. 26)
...and also...
"It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. The eminent Kant scholar Lewis Beck used to say that anyone who could believe in God could believe in anything. To appeal to an omnipotent deity is to allow that at any moment the regularities of nature may be ruptured, that miracles may happen."
Unnerving indeed, in all honesty. It is non-trivial and (potentially life-altering) to find (paraphrasing C.S.Lewis) "a real, live God in our midst".
Now granted, methodological naturalism can be useful, in finding out "the way things usually work" (also called "nomological" investigation - the study of how things generally proceed, based on the "laws" (Greek 'nomos') that govern the universe). But as soon as it morphs into an 'Absolute Principle', the openminded curiosity which is the chief treasure of the scientific endeavor is discarded. As soon as I state that "I've never observed a miracle in my laboratory, therefore God has never done (and can never do) a miracle" or even worse, "I refuse to believe in miracles because that might allow [Lewontin's proverbial] Divine foot in the door", I have unjustifiably closed and locked my mind. In agreement with William James, and contra W.K.Clifford, "unlimited skepticism" can sometimes be a hindrance to finding the truth...
Schweitzer is almost technically correct when she disparages "invoking the hand of God to explain natural phenomena", in the sense of invoking the "miraculous" hand of God in suspending the laws that He has ordained that generally govern the physical world. But she neglects to mention that the whole controversy is about exactly that point - what phenomena are natural and what are not? ...and is it possible that some phenomena truly CANNOT be explained naturalistically? (the origin of matter, the origin of DNA, Christ walking on water, Christ's Resurrection)?
When I throw a basketball up in the air and it falls back to the ground, there is no need to infer a "miracle" - there is not necessarily any suspension of the normal processes of gravity that God has established. But must we assume that God is bound by these laws that He created? That He can never suspend them if He so chooses?
In my humble opinion, we ought not to make such "metaphysically gratuitous" assumptions. As Steven Meyer writes (with my insertion), "Of course intelligent design [and creationism] is not wholly naturalistic, but why does that make it unscientific? What noncircular reason can be given for this assertion? What independent criterion of method demonstrates the inferior scientific status of a nonnaturalistic explanation?"
By contrast, the Kansas folks got it right:
Older 2001 Definition: "Science is the human activity of seeking natural explanations of the world
around us."
Revised 2005 Definition: "Science is a systematic method of continuing investigation, that uses
observation, hypothesis testing, measurement, experimentation, logical argument
and theory building, to lead to more adequate explanations of natural
phenomena."
"More adequate", "more accurate", "closer to the truth about the way the world works"... This is the true and noble goal of science... the aim of that worthy perennial nomological enterprise... that "glory of kings."
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