December 13, 2009

Comments (3)

  • thank you for posting all of this. it's a very stimulating topic, and one that desperately needs to be addressed more widely in our churches. i've seen a lot of what Piper would call the "soft" version of the prosperity gospel in the various churches i've attended and visited throughout my life... that kind of "Jesus wants you to be happy, God is a good Father who loves to give gifts to his children" sort of teaching which, of course, is BASED on truths found in Scripture. the problem is not that the prosperity gospel is all lies, but that it is an exaggerated and incomplete presentation of truth (which, i would venture to say, is even more dangerous).

    i've also experienced firsthand, in my own family, the destructive aftermath of that "soft" prosperity gospel; one of the reasons my mother left Christianity is because she had always clung to the promise that God would never call her to go through more than she was able to bear, and when she found herself at her own personal breaking point, she felt betrayed by God. it's DEVASTATING what this kind of half-truth does to people. my mom would have been much better served had she been taught "in this world you will have trouble," but "do not fear, for I am with you." God NEVER promises that life is going to be easy; in fact, he promises that it will be hard. but what he also promises is his presence. and the reality is that, in some of our most abject moments, that is ALL we have.

    i think, also, that Piper was right to voice caution about riches, about the search for (and accumulation of) wealth. however, i would take issue with the part where he says that riches are usually a curse, and that it's not true that God rewards people with wealth. in the Old Testament, we do see examples of kings and holy men being blessed by God with good crops, and abundant flocks, and lots of land. God using wealth as reward IS a truth found in the Bible; however, it is just that... A truth, not THE truth (singular). again, the problem with the prosperity gospel is that it takes one truth and makes it the overarching metanarrative of spiritual life.

    i think, perhaps, a good balance between the two perspectives can be found in the book of Job. Job was a holy man, a follower of God, who was called to suffer beyond what most people will suffer in their lifetimes. he suffered the loss of his family, his riches, his health... EVERYTHING. and, at one stage in his life, that was what it meant to be a follower of Christ. in order to stay true to his God, Job had to suffer. (this would be a good example of the whole "theology of suffering" that Piper discusses.) however, later on in that book, God not only restores to Job everything that he had lost in his service to God... God MULTIPLIES it. God blesses him with more abundant wealth, so that he's better off than he was originally. this is an example of God blessing his servants with wealth and prosperity (which is the principle that the prosperity gospel is based off of).

    so to some extent, i think that whether we suffer or whether we attain great wealth is irrelevant and circumstantial on our path to follow Christ. i think perhaps the best and most balanced view on this topic can be found in verses like the following:

    Phil. 4:11-13
    "... for i have learned, in whatever situation i am, to be content. i know how to be brought low, and i know how to abound. in any and every circumstance, i have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. i can do all things through him who strengthens me."

    Job 2:10
    "... shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?"

    Job 1:21
    "... the Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord."

  • some amendments and qualifications:

    1. i probably should not have said that riches were irrelevant in our walk with Christ. i do need to qualify that. as Piper so aptly pointed out, the problem is not with riches themselves but with KEEPING riches. i think that, if we are blessed financially by God, our responsibility as Christians is to ensure that:

    our riches are not gained or maintained AT THE EXPENSE of someone else.
    our riches are not gained dishonestly.
    our riches are not an object of lust or idolatry.
    our riches are given away generously and even in a costly manner to those who are less fortunate.

    God makes it very clear that you cannot serve him AND money, so money must never become our God. but beyond that, we have responsibilities to the poor, etc.

    2. i agree with Piper that what the prosperity preachers are doing among the poor in Africa is heinous and sinister. at the same time, despite the greedy motives and the misleading information presented by these preachers, i cannot rule out the possibility that some Africans may be genuinely meeting Christ through their presentations. "what then? only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed and in that i rejoice." (Phil. 1:18) just something to consider.

    3. i said previously that in some of our most abject moments, the presence of God/Christ is all we have. i need to amend that by saying that sometimes, in the midst of our most abject moments, God appears to be absent. whether that is a flaw in our perception, or whether God really does remove himself from us at times... i can't pretend to know. but the reality is that sometimes, even those with a "theology of suffering" may feel betrayed by God. there are plenty of examples in the psalms and in the prophetic books where holy men of God, not living in any unconfessed sin, find themselves in places of utter misery and accuse God of "hiding his face" from them in the midst of their suffering. so maybe i was guilty, just now, of purporting my own little bit of prosperity gospel... by admitting that life is difficult and then being too quick to try to soften that blow with promises of the constant presence of God.

  • @StarOfLorien - Great thoughts Kristin... thanks!!   Yes, Job would be a good example...

    > our riches are not an object of lust or idolatry

    Yes... how difficult!!   I might go even farther and say that the Bible indicates that we are never to "seek riches"...  only to work to support our family and those in need...  1 Thessalonians 4:11-12, 2 Thessalonians 3:6-15, 1 Timothy 5:8, Ephesians 4:28, 1 Tim. 3:3, 6:9-10, Heb. 13:5, and Proverbs 23:4-5...   God may grant riches, or He may not...   It's interesting, as Piper reminds me, that Jesus said "How hard it is for those who are rich to enter the kingdom of God!" Mark 10:23...

    > our riches are given away generously and even in a costly manner to those who are less fortunate

    Yes! .... on 'generously', exactly what 1 Tim. 6:17-19 says, and generosity is probably an aid to putting our money-lust to death... on "costly", wow, yes, I am really wrestling with this some these days... .c.f. the widow's mite (commended by Jesus for giving away the LAST BIT OF MONEY SHE HAD TO LIVE ON????!?!?)   and 2 Cor. 8:
    1Now, brethren, we wish to make known to you the grace of God which has been given in the churches of Macedonia,
    2that in a great ordeal of affliction their abundance of joy and their deep poverty overflowed in the wealth of their liberality.
    3For I testify that according to their ability, and beyond their ability, they gave of their own accord,
    4begging us with much urging for the favor of participation in the support of the saints,
    5and this, not as we had expected, but they first gave themselves to the Lord and to us by the will of God.

    And then Jesus goes and says things like this: (!?!?!)   "Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Luke 12:33-34

    On feeling abandoned by God, I think that He does not actually abandon us (in fact He promises never to, Heb. 13:5-6)... sometimes we may feel that way, but it's at those times that we need to rely on His promises and not on our feelings...  I am preaching to myself of course...

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